Against the Heathen, Book VII

Book VII

• Against the Heathen VII.1 — 1. Since it has been sufficiently shown, as far as there has been opportunity, how vain it is to form images, the course of our argument requires that we should next speak as briefly as possible, and without any…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.2 — 2. Who are the true gods? you say. To answer you in common and simple language, we do not know; for how can we know who those are whom we have never seen? We have been accustomed to hear from you that an infinite…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.3 — 3. So, then, if these things are so, we desire to learn this, first, from you—what is the cause, what the reason, that you offer them sacrifices; and then, what gain comes to the gods themselves from this, and…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.4 — 4. If perchance it is not this, are victims not slain in sacrifice to the gods, and cast upon their flaming altars to give them some pleasure and delight? And can any man persuade himself that the gods become mild as…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.5 — 5. We have next to examine the argument which we hear continually coming from the lips of the common people, and find embedded in popular conviction, that sacrifices are offered to the gods of heaven for this…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.6 — 6. But let us allow, as you wish, that the gods are accustomed to such disturbance, and that sacrifices are offered and sacred solemnities performed to calm it, when, then, is it fitting that these offices should be…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.7 — 7. But neither do I demand that this should be said, or that I should be told what causes the gods have for their anger against men, that having taken offence they must be soothed. I do ask, however, Did they ever…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.8 — 8. But this, as I said, I do not mention, but allow it to pass away in silence. This one thing I ask, above all, What reason is there if I kill a pig, that a god changes his state of mind, and lays aside his angry…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.9 — 9. So, if some ox, or any animal you please, which is slain to mitigate and appease the fury of the deities, were to take a man’s voice and speak these words: “Is this, then, O Jupiter, or whatever god thou art,…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.10 — 10. But perhaps some one will say, We give to the gods sacrifices and other gifts, that, being made willing in a measure to grant our prayers, they may give us prosperity and avert from us evil, cause us to live…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.11 — 11. Lastly, if the gods drive away sorrow and grief, if they bestow joy and pleasure, how are there in the world so many and so wretched men, whence come so many unhappy ones, who lead a life of tears in the meanest…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.12 — 12. Or the gods of heaven should be said to be ungrateful if, while they have power to prevent it, they suffer an unhappy race to be involved in so many hardships and disasters. But perhaps they may say something of…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.13 — 13. We have shown sufficiently, as I suppose, that victims, and the things which go along with them, are offered in vain to the immortal gods, because they are neither nourished by them, nor feel any pleasure, nor…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.14 — 14. But all this conceding and ascribing of honour about which we are speaking are met with among men alone, whom their natural weakness and love of standing above their fellows teach to delight in arrogance, and in…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.15 — 15. What then! some one will say, do you think that no honour should be given to the gods at all? If you propose to us gods such as they should be if they do exist, and such as we feel that we all mean when we…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.16 — 16. What say you, O you—! is that foul smell, then, which is given forth and emitted by burning hides, by bones, by bristles, by the fleeces of lambs, and the feathers of fowls,—is that a favour and an honour to the…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.17 — 17. Lo, if dogs—for a case must be imagined, in order that things may be seen more clearly—if dogs, I say, and asses, and along with them water-wagtails, if the twittering swallows, and pigs also, having acquired…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.18 — 18. And as we are now speaking of the animals sacrificed, what cause, what reason is there, that while the immortal gods—for, so far as we are concerned, they may all be gods who are believed to be so—are of one…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.19 — 19. But you err, says my opponent, and fall into mistakes; for in sacrificing female victims to the female deities, males to the male deities, there is a hidden and very secret reason, and one beyond the reach of the…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.20 — 20. But let us agree, as you wish, that there are both infernal regions and Manes, and that some gods or other dwell in these by no means favourable to men, and presiding over misfortunes; and what cause, what reason…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.21 — 21. But this, too, it is fitting that we should here learn from you: If a goat be slain to Jupiter, which is usually sacrificed to father Liber and Mercury, or if the barren heifer be sacrificed to Unxia, which you…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.22 — 22. If, then, these things are vain, and are not supported by any reason, the very offering of sacrifices also is idle. For how can that which follows have a suitable cause, when that very first statement from which…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.23 — 23. For as to that which we hear said by you, that some of the gods are good, that others, on the contrary, are bad, and rather inclined to indulge in wanton mischief, and that the usual rites are paid to the one…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.24 — 24. Be it so; let it be conceded that these most unfortunate cattle are not sacrificed in the temples of the gods without some religious obligation, and that what has been done in accordance with usage and custom…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.25 — 25. For if whatever is done by men, and especially in religion, should have its causes,—and nothing should be done without a reason in all that men do and perform,—tell us and say what is the cause, what the reason,…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.26 — 26. We have now to say a few words about incense and wine, for these, too, are connected and mixed up with your ceremonies, and are used largely in your religious acts. And, first, with respect to that very incense…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.27 — 27. Finally, that we may always abide by the rule and definition by which it has been shown and determined that whatever is done by man must have its causes, we will hold it fast here also, so as to demand of you…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.28 — 28. Will any one say that incense is given to the celestials, for this reason, that it has a sweet smell, and imparts a pleasant sensation to the nose, while the rest are disagreeable, and have been set aside because…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.29 — 29. Wine is used along with incense; and of this, in like manner, we ask an explanation why it is poured upon it when burning. For if a reason is not shown for doing this, and its cause is not set forth, this action…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.30 — 30. But, says my opponent, you are insulting us without reason, for we do not pour forth wine to the gods of heaven for these reasons, as if we supposed that they either thirsted, or drank, or were made glad by…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.31 — 31. It is worth while to bring forward the words themselves also, which, when wine is offered, it is customary to use and make supplication with: “Let the deity be worshipped with this wine which we bring.” The words…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.32 — 32. But let there be, as you wish, honour in wine and in incense, let the auger and displeasure of the deities be appeased by the immolation and slaughter of victims: are the gods moved by garlands also, wreaths and…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.33 — 33. But the games which you celebrate, called Floralia and Megalensia, and all the rest which you wish to be sacred, and to be considered religious duties, what reason have they, what cause, that it was necessary…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.34 — 34. Whence, therefore, have these vicious opinions flowed, or from what causes have they sprung? From this it is clear, in great measure, that men are unable to know what God is, what is His essence, nature,…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.35 — 35. Come now: as the discussion has been prolonged and led to these points, let us, bringing forward what each has to say, decide by a brief comparison whether your ideas of the gods above are the better, or our…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.36 — 36. You say that some of them cause dissensions, that there are others who inflict pestilences, others who excite love and madness, others, even, who preside over wars, and are delighted by the shedding of blood; but…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.37 — 37. Since these things are so, and since there is so great difference between our opinions and yours, where are we, on the one hand, impious, or you pious, since the decision as to piety and impiety must be founded…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.38 — 38. If the immortal gods cannot be angry, says my opponent, and their nature is not agitated or troubled by any passions, what do the histories, the annals mean, in which we find it written that the gods, moved by…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.39 — 39. We have come, then, in speaking, to the very point of the case, to that on which the question hinges, to the real and most intimate part of the discussion, which it is fitting that, laying aside superstitious…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.40 — 40. But neither shall we deny that we know this as well, that once on a time, when the state and republic were in difficulties, caused either by a terrible plague continually infecting the people and carrying them…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.41 — 41. All these things which have been mentioned, have indeed a miraculous appearance,—rather, they are believed to have it,—if they come to men’s ears just as they have been brought forward; and we do not deny that…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.42 — 42. And what pollution or abomination could have flowed from this, either to make the circus less pure, or to defile Jupiter, seeing that in a few moments, in a few seconds, he beheld so many thousands throughout the…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.43 — 43. If Jupiter sought to have his games celebrated, and that afresh, with greater care; if he honestly sought to restore the people to health, and that the evil which he had caused should go no further and not be…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.44 — 44. In like manner we might go through the other narratives, and show that in these also, and in expositions of these, something far different from what the gods should be is said and declared about them, as in this…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.45 — 45. And as we read that he used food also, by which bodily existence is kept up, he has a large gullet, that he may gulp down the food sought for with gaping mouth; he has a belly to receive it, and a place where he…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.46 — 46. But, says my opponent, if he was not a god, why, after he left the ship, and crawled to the island in the Tiber, did he immediately become invisible, and cease to be seen as before? Can we indeed know whether…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.47 — 47. But if that snake was not a present deity, says my opponent, why, after its arrival, was the violence of the plague overcome, and health restored to the Roman people? We, too, on the other hand, bring forward the…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.48 — 48. But some one will perhaps say that the care of such a god has been denied to later and following ages, because the ways in which men now live are impious and objectionable; that it brought help to our ancestors,…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.49 — 49. But the Great Mother, also, says my opponent, being summoned from Phrygian Pessinus in precisely the same way by command of the seers, was a cause of safety and great joy to the people. For, on the one hand, a…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.50 — 50. What shall we say then? Was Hannibal, that famous Carthaginian, an enemy strong and powerful, before whom the fortunes of Rome trembled in doubt and uncertainty, and its greatness shook—was he driven from Italy…vatican.va
• Against the Heathen VII.51 — 51. But suppose that the deity was present in that very stone, as you demand should be believed: and what mortal is there, although he may be credulous and very ready to listen to any fictions you please, who would…vatican.va